A conversation with New York State court-certified mediator Isaac Gruenebaum
What qualifies you to be able to mediate between spouses who are looking to divorce?
Part of it is experience and the other part is having spent time studying this. I started getting interested in mediation around seven years ago when I was working part time for the beis din of Rabbi Kahan in New City. I saw that litigation wasn’t really suited for divorce, and that a lot of couples weren’t looking for that either. So even though I was planning on working part time in real estate, I decided to get an education in the techniques of mediation. I took advanced training with several renowned mediation professionals, including Sequoia Stalder of Stalder Mediation and Kenneth Neumann, PhD, of the Center for Mediation and Training. Right now I’m pursuing a master’s degree in negotiation and conflict resolution at Columbia University. I already know the art of mediation, but I want to understand the science behind it as well.
In terms of techunos hanefesh, it’s all about being calm and reassuring, letting the process happen and not being fazed by all the screaming and contention. It’s also about me recognizing that I’m not a party to the disagreement. My goal is that both sides should be okay with the outcome, so I can’t take up any space. If I take up space, it’s not going to work.
Meaning that you distance yourself.
Correct. All I’m here for is to help the couple come to an agreement. They are the parents. If they agree on how to go about parenting, no one else matters.
Do you try to use the power of persuasion?
Not really. I try to get them to a place where everyone can have what he or she genuinely wants. If they really believe that they shouldn’t settle on an issue, then I don’t want them to. Persuasion works for business mediation, because afterward the two sides will be going their separate ways, but here they’re still going to have to raise their children together. But I guess there’s also a degree of persuasion involved; it’s just more subtle and nuanced.
Let me give you an example. A vaxxer and an anti-vaxxer are fighting. Are you going to persuade one of them to give up their beliefs and give in to the other? These are issues that people go to court over because it’s very important to them. So what I will do is ask, “Why do you want to give your kid vaccines?” One will say, “What do you mean? I want him to be healthy. I want him to be able to go to cheder and be allowed to go out of the country.” Then I’ll ask the other person about the reason for not giving their kid vaccines. They might say, “Every vaccine is really three vaccines. There are other ways to get around the requirements.” Then I’ll ask, “How far are you willing to go? Let’s put a parameter on it. Would you not give a vaccine even if it means your child won’t be able to get into cheder? Would you not give it even if it means you’ll have to home school?” Some of them will say yes and others will say no.
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